Follow

Lemmy is a free open source federated alternative to Reddit. You can follow their official account at:

➡️ @LemmyDev

You can try the flagship instance at lemmy.ml

They have now introduced federation between Lemmy instances, so people on one Lemmy instance can interact with people on others. (They are working on federating with the rest of the Fediverse later.)

@FediFollows @LemmyDev #Lemmy performs hard coded censorship. I refuse to use #Fediverse software that is censorous at its very core.

@icedquinn @realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev I can't make a community named "pussy" because it's marked in the code as a slur. It's a good feature but it needs to be an abstract and configurable list

@icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo is more knowledgeable about this then I am but they have, in the code itself, a blacklist of words that you cannot use in the title or description of a post.

@icedquinn @LemmyDev @FediFollows @realcaseyrollins that PR would be refused. #Lemmy devs have said that they deliberately hard coded the slur filter so that every Lemmy intance has the same hard-coded words. The problem is that some of those words are substrings of normal dictionary words, so legit noncontroversial posts get harsh treatment. It's clumsy b/c you can't even quote or mock someone who uses a slur.

@realcaseyrollins @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn I think there is a project "#Lenny" that removes the hard-coded slur filter. And of course it's also rediculous that a fork must be maintained for that, which could then break the #federated connectivity.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @FediFollows @LemmyDev @icedquinn I’ve hopped back on, and it looks like the project has greatly improved. The users claim that the word ban antifeature can be easily altered or removed. I suggested the possibility of making those alterations possible in the UI/frontend, but was unsurprisingly met with a chilling response.

Also, it seems like derpy.email, the instance that #Lenny was created for, is no longer operational, and has closed registrations as well. We could absolutely be served by a flagship #Lenny instance, if anyone feels like hosting one…

@realcaseyrollins @LemmyDev @FediFollows @icedquinn the slur filter was originally implemented so recklessly that if a substring matched the regex, the UI would hard & fast refuse to accept the whole composition with no specific error, and so users were forced to throw away a potentially long (labor intensive) msg in a way that was blind to the mods & ownership, so the problem wasn't even trackable.

@icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins Lemmy evolved from that but this is not just a coding botch.. it reflects reckless disregard for colatteral damage to legitimate users who have no malicious or nefarious intent or effect. #Lemmy devs & lemmy.ml are tyrants in both their design and especially in their management style. Indeed we need to avoid tyranny, thus different devs, which hopefully #Lenny will satisfy.

@realcaseyrollins @LemmyDev @FediFollows @icedquinn Lenny can't likely solve this problem though: #Lemmy is hard-coded to require client-side javascript to the point that text of posts is entirely unreachable w/out it. This ruins the use of archive.org, so if a node goes down or if becomes CloudFlared access to content can be lost forever. And if a moderator abuses their power to censor, archive.org is blocked from showing the abuse.

@icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins The authoritarian attitude of #Lemmy devs is hard-wired into the design such that the whole project should be scrapped. E.g.it would never occur to Lemmy devs that a censored post, whether it breaks rules or not, should be quarantined & preserved in a way that it can be ported to another instance where the rules and standards are more accommodating. Design decisions would resist it

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn @FediFollows @LemmyDev If you don’t like #JavaScript, check out #lotide. Unlike #Lemmy, it actually federated with other #Fediverse softwares, and it doesn’t need #JavaScript at all! It’s got more of a #HackerNews feel to it too, which is pretty dope.

Check out narwhal.city, it’s the flagship instance atm

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn@blob.cat @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live We have a public modlog that is used by default. If your problem is that post CAN be removed from the server at all, then you'll be sorely disappointed with basically every fediverse site.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn@blob.cat @FediFollows @LemmyDev @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live If your definition of tyranny is not being able to insult marginalized groups with slurs, then I don't know what to tell you, but sure, we're tyrants under that definition.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LemmyDev @FediFollows @realcaseyrollins do it anyway or capture the link they specifically refused it. i'll put the refusal notice on /z/

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @icedquinn @LemmyDev @FediFollows @realcaseyrollins That is so incredibly short sighted. Language adapts, and is also not universal. People will just work around the problem and insult people in some other way.

@FediFollows @LemmyDev what does federating with the rest of the fediverse look like? It will be able to see posts from mastodon? I dont get how this would work in the ui

@nx for now federation only works between lemmy instances. federating with other software is more complicated and will come later.

@FediFollows

@LemmyDev What will that look like though? I'm confused about what benefits that would entail. Being able to login with mastodon accounts? or being able to view mastodon posts\threads in lemmy?

@nx @LemmyDev

I don't know what Lemmy has planned.

However, I think there was a previous attempt at a Fediverse reddit alternative called Prismo a while ago?

It's not active any more but IIRC the Mastodon interaction was being able to follow users, reply to topics and upvote posts. From the Mastodon end it looked like any other topic thread, likes were interpreted as upvotes.

The main benefit would be a huge userbase increase, Mastodon already has millions of registered users.

@FediFollows @nx @LemmyDev

there is still a prismo instance live here if anyone wants to play with it. supports full federation

prismo.fedibird.com/

@FediFollows @nx @LemmyDev there's also littr.me that's a (still non)federated link aggregator. This is my project and federation is estimated to work sometime at the beginning of the next year.

@nx The 2nd one. You could follow not only federated communities from the instance you're signed up on, but federated users.

@FediFollows @LemmyDev Would really like to see the near insistence on Docker go away so an admin could, you know, just install the components from source via step by step instructions.

@geewillickers thats just not practical for us as official installation method, because lemmy consists of 5 different services (db, backend, frontend, image hosting, link previews). but it could be an option for some people. we have an open issue regarding docs for manual installation, so you are welcome to write the documentation.

@FediFollows

@LemmyDev @FediFollows

I don't get it - why is it not practical? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like everyone involved in making the docker image are kind of refusing (maybe not the best wording of it) to document how the docker image is built, and how the components interact with each other (the basics on getting services to work together), but you're obviously working with the knowledge of what one needs to run them outside of a docker image. So why not provide those details, even in a mostly generic fashion? "Install X, Y, Z, G, and L, grab the configs from our git repository in folder X and massage to your needs"?

@geewillickers @FediFollows You're free to come up with a way to build / install every service lemmy depends on, and document them as you go along, but we personally don't have time to do that. Its been an open issue for a long time and no one has attempted it.

@geewillickers to add, the documentation for installing lemmy is precisely inside the dockerfile, written in bash. the relation between services is described in the docker-compose.yml. it shouldnt be very hard to translate it into a guide (but we have too many things to do already).

@FediFollows

@LemmyDev @FediFollows The idea of that could be kind of fun, I may have to check that out in further detail than I've looked at previously.
@Lemmy no worries. Most of us understand basic limitations of available time by developers donating their time. I might not agree with various developers oppinions, but if the opensource tool proves useful (regardless of oppinions) then the community starts to help more. That's when things start working out.

Too many people expect these tools to be as robust as enteprise software with 10 plus years of development, when in reality these projects are started as nothing more than trial runs that later become big. This project will get there.

Beggars can't be choosers. Open source software is free. So if anyone wants extra features from any open source project, then code it yourself, throw lots money at those that are developing it, or if they are too busy, pay your own programmer to work on it.

@LemmyDev

I just get a 'Bad Gateway' error trying to visit Lemmy.ml :(

@joli @LemmyDev Lemmy.ml is a terrible instance to use anyway. They're censoring legit posts with reckless disregard, and they've even been caught covering up the censorship by changing the modlogs.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli You posted a scam/spam link to a credit card application. We don't allow scams on our instances, start your own instance if you want to be full of spam like that.

@LemmyDev @joli That wasn't my post, it was a reply to me. Apparently @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo's posted that to #Lemmy.ml. But I reviewed it & see no spam or scam. "The True Value Discover Card program ended on 3/6/2020. Because of this, we are no longer accepting new applications." <- is that what you're calling "spam/scam"?

@bojkotiMalbona @LemmyDev @joli

I'm asking if anyone knows of a 3rd-party credit card that works on the #Discovercard network, now that True Value has discontinued their card.

#Lemmy.ml ownership censored my question (in my own community that I moderate)-- apparently their anti-capitalism beliefs won't allow credit card discussion even when the ultimate goal is to find a card that's less socially irresponsible than the typical options.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @joli @LemmyDev perhaps English isn't their 1st language. I can see how someone not fluent in English might think the post is spam. OTOH, there is a box that starts with "When painting, planting or plumbing, every DYI-er can use a helping hand. Apply for..." - where does that come from?

@bojkotiMalbona

I didn't write what's in that box. I don't know where it came from. If you follow link, it doesn't say that on the webpage.

@joli @LemmyDev

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LemmyDev @joli ah, it's in the raw HTML. <meta name="description" content="When painting, planting or plumbing,

@bojkotiMalbona

That wasn't there when the #Lemmy post was censored. It's a new feature. So they censored it b/c they think what I wrote is spam, or (more likely) their stance against capitalism.

@LemmyDev @joli

@bojkotiMalbona @joli @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo That's an expired credit card application link, lol. Again, if you want to start an instance full of credit card spam, you're free to do so.

@joli @LemmyDev @bojkotiMalbona

Not cool indeed. This modlog used to show that a post about the status of the cock.li mail server was censored b/c the word "cock" was in the subject line:

lemmy.ml/modlog/community/1499

After some spot-lighting & thus embarrassment, they cleared it from the modlog to hide the act of censorship itself. (The right move would have been to uncensor the msg, but that didn't happen)

@joli @LemmyDev @bojkotiMalbona

Also if you look at what the modlog still shows, where someone commented about the risk of email providers going out of business, that's also an abuse of power that came from the ownership, not the moderator.

@joli @bojkotiMalbona @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo We've never changed a modlog, so I have no idea where they're getting that from.

@LemmyDev @bojkotiMalbona @joli The modlog for c/email showed the censorship of a discussion on the cock.li status, then it was spotlighted an example of excessive #censorship, and now it's not there. But the original post is not there either. Moderators do not have the power to suppress modlogs. It can only be done by someone in control of the instance.

@LemmyDev

Yes, of course. My whole point was that the credit card is discontinued. I'm looking for a replacement option.

@bojkotiMalbona @joli

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

This is a brand new server run by the main developers of the project as a spin-off of mastodon.social 🐘 It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!