Follow

The messenger has become very problematic lately, and most of its problems come from it being centralised.

You may want to follow and support a decentralised messenger project instead, there are many of them on the Fediverse:

➡️ @snikket_im - New initiative giving XMPP servers & clients a newbie-friendly unified look and feel

➡️ @xmpp - The XMPP standards foundation

➡️ @matrix - Matrix is best known for its Element client

➡️ @delta - Messaging through email

➡️ @briar - P2P messaging

@FediFollows Bordering-on-irresponsible post. How about pimping cool Fedi software without spreading FUD.

@pingviini

The whole point of FediFollows is to encourage decentralisation.

Signal continues to be centralised, and its developers seem to block attempts at decentralisation. Now they are using their centralised status to promote a feature that many on here find objectionable.

Given all this, it seems prudent to point out decentralised alternatives, so that we do not end up having to constantly migrate from one centralised service to another.

@FediFollows

> Now they are using their centralised status to promote a feature
> that many on here find objectionable.

Don't even know what you are talking about. This is what I mean with spreading FUD. Point out what each of your Fedi alternatives does better compared Signal in one sentence and there you go, good post.

@pingviini

Decentralised service means if one server does something you dislike, you can block it and move to another without leaving the overall service. Most of your contacts remain intact. Lots do that on the Fedi.

Centralised service means there's only one server, so whoever runs that sets all the rules for everyone. If they do something you don't like, you can either do nothing (and keep your contacts) or leave the service completely (and lose your contacts). No real choice.

1. The contacts in Signal are phone numbers. As long as you don't decide to leave the service known as the Public Switched Telephone Network (which happens to be federated by the way), your contacts are perfectly safe. You just have to come to an agreement with each of your contacts about what different phone-number-based messenger to use, just as you would have to with any of the programs on your list.

2. That's not what I meant when I said "Don't even know what you are talking about", I meant that mysterious "feature that many on here find objectionable". @Polychrome suggests it is their new integration with MobileCoin. Is that what you meant? It would be pretty ironic if it were, considering it's a perfectly decentralised (albeit stupid, like all the other blockchain cryptocurrencies) payment system.
@pingviini @FediFollows I wanna try Snikket and Delta.

Can't remember what Briar is, I think I've tried it and didn't like it for whatever reason - so I'll have to give it another try.

As for Signal, I've seen some posts about it doing something weird and didn't click the links. Doing it now...

... oh. Okay, yeah. They've added cryptocurrency payments, probably to ride the wave of pushing payments into popular mobile messenger platforms: https://signal.org/blog/help-us-test-payments-in-signal/

Given I'm not a fan of cryptocurrency and/or having to pay with a mobile application for anything, yeah. This is freaky.
@pingviini @FediFollows
things which are better about the alternatives:
(1) federated
(2) completely open source and the ones which have server publish code, which you can actually use to run your own service and talk to people on other servers (because 1) whereas signal published their server code one year ago and left it rotting, until people noticed and now they updated the server code again.
But still: they are developing it behind closed doors and you will never know, if the code they run is the code you see.
(3) do not include shady cryptocurrency payments: https://www.wired.com/story/signal-mobilecoin-payments-messaging-cryptocurrency/
@daniel @FediFollows Not even a very good first draft, way too verbose, still contains FUD (what exactly is "shady" about MobileCoin, what does "developing it behind closed doors" mean, are you doing your coding naked on the street?).

Geez people, do I have to write your promos and explainers for you? Because I'm not gonna.
@pingviini @FediFollows
Sorry, i am tired and should go to bed.
Gotta read more on MobileCoin, but Cryptocurrencies tend to be a mix of environment damaging and ponzi scheme.
"developing behind closed doors" means, that dumping server code every other year is not the same as actively working with the open source community.
I'll work on my arguing skills.

@pingviini @FediFollows you may want to ask the question before calling the post FUD... there's good information there, and nothing a 2 second Goggle/DDG search wouldn't answer for you.

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar Use BRIAR!!! Signal is using “Open Source” as marketing word! they might have the strongest encryption today but that encryption soon will be fade out after a years to come and all your super secret chat that “not stored” on their not update server code for a year are now readable text!

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar don't forget

@session — easy to use anonymous instant messenger based on signal codebase using a decentralized network of nodes

@io @session is gonna be cool but for now is unusable on more than one device

@xyhhx have you tried it since the multi device beta? it works pretty well for me. I daresay better than signal.

@Arco

Yes, @Jami is great! Their main focus is maybe on calling but yes they do messaging too! And it's P2P so it's totally decentralised 👍

@FediFollows Yes you're right. They are working on a group chat feature atm!

@johanonym @RaphJ

If you search for the hashtag signal you will find plenty of discourse right now.

@FediFollows @RaphJ Thanks, I found out that Signal finally published the code for the Signal server, and - if understood correctly - said that if they didn't sooner, it was because they didn't want to publicly reveal they were implementing some cryptography in it. Obviously they didn't manage this part very well. Still, it seems there are no reasons to worry...

@FediFollows

Just was thinking about this and was like "gah but I forgot all the alternatives to signal" so this was perfect timing!

@snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar

@FediFollows great post thanks for doing this. The haters in ur comments are not worth ur time

@kirschwipfel @Harchypelle @FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar

Every "reference" leads to another person referencing someone else... until you hit the wall when someone vaguely and unqualified makes a comment loki network. But maybe it's the "SS" in Session what makes you uncomfortable

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar

Hi @FediFollows

1.) Your account is awesome

2.) Without Mastodon, I would know so little of awesome software

3.) I wish all developpers of such great safe messengers all the best. It's hard to make many peoples move to better alternatives, but if you wouldn't invest so much into development, it would not just be hard but impossible.

Proud to have already 2 of the list installed... Now looking to convince people to use with me...

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar I think it's important to signal (haha) that federation is not a silver bullet and that centralization is not the root problem here.
If Eugen started implementing crap on Mastodon against everyone's will, there'd be nothing about federation alone saving us as you cannot move from Mastodon to Pleroma for instance.
The solution is interoperability + nomadic identity so you can move to a new account/soft without starting from scratch.

@silmathoron

I think you can migrate your account to a Masto fork if something went wrong with original Mastodon?

Even if you couldn't, you could still move accounts to elsewhere on Fedi, you'd just have to tell your followers to update their follows?

@FediFollows for the fork, yes, but that's supposing you have someone to maintain that fork...
And if you don't, the second option does not make much difference compared to people that have you number just contacting you on another messenging app...
What I mean is that federation is not the only problem here.
Even if we could talk to people on FB or Twitter, they would not want to move if that meant loosing all contacts (we already see this for YouTubers), account redirection must be seamless.

@yellowbeard @xmpp

They all have e2e but they work slightly differently, it's best to try them and see which one suits your needs.

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar It was troublesome enough to move the majority of my contacts to Signal from whatsapp to begin with so no dice there.

@VSubm4rine

I feel your pain 😩 but the point of using a free open decentralised platform is that it's less likely you'll need to switch again.

There is no one group or person with control of decentralised platforms, so there isn't as much danger of someone ruining them.

With centralised platforms like Whatsapp, Signal etc there is always some single person, group or company in charge, and if they go bad the whole platform can go bad with them.

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar which of these enable end-to-end encryption by default ?

@briar does I guess being peer-to-peer, it's very cool that it uses Tor as well!

@FediFollows @snikket_im @xmpp @matrix @delta @briar Matrix is not known for it's Element client. It's known for having open ecosystem of many alternative clients to choose from. That's much more important. Also the decentralized server side is much more important than any single client in my books.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

This is a brand new server run by the main developers of the project as a spin-off of mastodon.social 🐘 It is not focused on any particular niche interest - everyone is welcome as long as you follow our code of conduct!