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@imattau @LemmyDev @yerinalexey The dev instance (lemmy.ml) demonstrates rampant abuse of power through profoundly excessive #censorship. How is #lemmygrad.ml? It looks communist, which in principle I have no real objection but i don't want to invest time there if it has the same pwr abusing censorship we see at #lemmy.ml.

@yerinalexey @LemmyDev @imattau If anyone knows of censorship beyond spam (i.e. censorship of civially presented ideas) at #lemmygrad plz mention it here. If no issues turn up I'll create an acct there. BTW, there is also this page for tracking #Lemmy instances: linuxreviews.org/Lemmy

@resist1984 @yerinalexey @imattau Do you have a source for that censorship? We have a transparent, publicly available mod log.

@resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @yerinalexey @rick_777 @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live /r/RedditAlternative pretty much only talks about the slur filter and the fact that the main devs are communist, which they REALLY seem to hate (they also mourn for Parler and the_donald so par for the course I guess). We do not "silently" remove content on the lemmy.ml instance unless it's porn or illegal.

@resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @yerinalexey @rick_777 @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo On "changing the modlog", I should also add that for cases of illegal content, especially illegal porn, we HAVE to remove it from the server permanently, otherwise we could go to prison and have the site shut down by police. Plus, it's gross.

We've never hidden a removed political or spam post otherwise. If you think we have, go ahead and point it out, because I've been an admin for over a year and have never seen it.

@AgreeableLandscape
It was you who censored the thread in c/email which simply asked what was going on w/the cock.li IMAP svr as it had been down for some time. You wrote in the modlog the reason for censoring: b/c the word "cock" was in the subj line. Then after this modlog was spotlighted as a sample of #Lemmy.ml #censorship for a few wks, the embarrassment lead to total removal of the thread & modlog to hide the censorship itself.

@resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777

@AgreeableLandscape
The censored thread in c/email was civil, it complied with the rules, and the context was obviously legal. The censorship was not by the community mod, but by ppl higher up at #Lemmy.ml.

It was great demostration of abuse of power. The highly priviledged ppl who abused their pwr should only be censoring when sitewide policy or law is broken, not b/c they don't like the hostname of a svc being discussed & not to save face.
@resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777

@AgreeableLandscape

In another case, Dessalines micromanaged c/personal_finance to censor what he claimed is "spam":

activism.openworlds.info/@akti

In this case, they've not yet deleted the proof:

lemmy.ml/post/37890

This is a case where #Lemmy.ml overpowered a moderator simply to impose their ideology, as chatter about credit cards apparantly encroaches on the anti-capitalist motivation of antifa.

@resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 On the credit card thing: We don't allow spam, and it's up to mods and admins to decide what counts as it. To me, an unsolicited, relatively unknown credit card application page being lumped in as spam isn't unreasonable because there's a sea of exploitative and scam credit card programs. I thought you meant someone asked for recommendations (from an earlier toot), in which case I'd have been inclined to agree it's not spam.

@AgreeableLandscape @rick_777 @imattau @LemmyDev @resist1984 There's no credit card application. The post was in fact *about* the *non-existence* of a credit card application. The post also exposed the fact that another #Lemmy node censored it once already in poor judgement, and Dessalines even acknowledged that in his statement. So there's little excuse here for hasty sloppiness & propensity for trigger-happy #censorship on #Lemmy.ml.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 On "haven't deleted the proof"

IDK if you'd believe me, but it's incorrect how you assumed we purge posts from the server willy nilly. We've left the majority of deleted posts, including account names with literal racial slurs, accounts from actual facists/Nazis, trolls insulting the head devs personally, and covid deniers in the modlog. If we were deleting everything we don't like, those wouldn't be there. [...]

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 I removed the email one. We don't allow slurs or intentionally offensive/edgelord content on the .ml instance, nor do we allow racism, sexism, etc. The site linked advertises domains called "r*pe.lol", "n*gge.rs",
"horsef**ker.org", "nuke.africa", "getbackinthe.kitchen" and "hitler.rocks". Guess what those qualify as.

@AgreeableLandscape @rick_777 @imattau @LemmyDev @resist1984 "cock.li" is a hostname & it's not a slur. The post wasn't about the website; it was about the state of the *IMAP* server. You censored a post that contained no slurs on the absurd basis that another website contained slurs. Even if the website associated to the IMAP svc had been mentioned in the post, it still demonstrates abuse of pwr at #Lemmy.ml.

@resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 @AgreeableLandscape Obviously the modlog and thread was removed from #Lemmy.ml b/c of embarrassment. There isn't a shred of legal liability there. It's also clear that the censorship of the act of censorship only occurred weeks later, after it was publically spotlighted.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 Again. Link me other people talking about it. From what I found, only you talked about it in threads from other people discussing lemmy, and I certainly don't follow your toots.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 It's also You say "obviously" on gut feeling with no knowledge of our internal server management practices. For a while, the head devs didn't have a procedure to purge posts from the database, so when they did, a number of posts were recommended for purging. The email one was one of them. I don't care if you believe this or not, but that's what happened.

CW: talks about pedophilia 

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo On "legal liability", if you read my other toot, you'll see that I was worried the site was trying to sexualize children through cartoon images. That IS illegal in most of the world, including Canada where I live, but usually not in most of the US. I'm not a lawyer and neither are anyone else on the Lemmy team, I was worried it would be illegal so I removed it, I don't have a legal team to consult. Lemmy isn't just a US thing.

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @resist1984 @LemmyDev @imattau @rick_777 Also, if I really wanted to hide evidence of censorship, why would I keep the credit card post in the modlog when that was a less "reasonable" removal according to you, and to my knowledge was talked about more often and by more people on Mastodon?

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @rick_777 @imattau @LemmyDev @resist1984 We don't just look at the domain name for slurs. We look at the website itself. Again, multiple users had complained about the post in relation to the slurs, so the decision to remove was made.

CW: talks about pedophilia 

@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo Also, at least one of the advertised domains on the email site has a cartoon/anime picture of what clearly looks like minors in sexually provocative poses (to be clear, I'm not recommending anyone go looking for it). THIS is what caused my recommendation for purging of the post from the server, as I was worried the image WAS meant to illicit sexual responses and that the sites had something to do with pedophilia or that the creator was a pedophile.

@resist1984
@AgreeableLandscape
Thank you for the mention, but it's really, REALLY bad form to mention a bunch of people in a content post, especially when you're in the middle of an argument.

The correct form is to link to the post and then in private CC the authors so they can be aware of the thread.

Otherwise this looks like a chain mail where everyone is CC'ing everyone saying "please remove me from this mailing list". Trust me, you DON'T want to go there.

I'd appreciate it if you both guys deleted all your posts and started from scratch because we're all getting dragged into an online argument and that sucks big time.

Thank you.

@resist1984 @imattau @LemmyDev @yerinalexey "The dev instance (lemmy.ml) demonstrates rampant abuse of power through profoundly excessive #censorship."

In what way? I'm an admin there, and I can tell you we mostly remove spam, facists/white supremicists, and that one covid denier. Almost all the removed content is in the modlog except for porn/sexual content or illegal content, the latter of which we HAVE to remove for obvious reasons.

@arefgee Tracking pixels, JavaScript required unless you want to look at ugly (in my opinion) old.reddit.com. Also, alternative front-ends do not leak your real IP and fingerprint.

@yerinalexey The new interface is definitely sluggish as fuck, thanks to that.

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